107 thoughts on “SNARK WEEK: Philippa Fucking Gregory

  1. Love your analysis of the trailer. I’ll watch TSP but I’m not very optimistic about its costumes or historical accuracy in general. Just 2 things:
    1) Juana is not Katherine’s younger sister but her elder sister. Katherine was the 5th and youngest of the Catholic Monarchs’ unfortunate children.
    2) The older monarchs you tagged as Isabella & Ferdinand are, in fact, Katherine’s in-laws Henry VII & Elizabeth of York. The actor cast as Henry VII looks nothing like him, he should have longer hair and not beard! Someone like Hugh Laurie would be a decent Henry. We know Queen Isabella will be portrayed by Alicia Borrachero, who was Boabdil’s angry momma in s02 of “Isabel” and also starred in the 2nd Narnia movie. A very talented and beautiful actress, but her dark looks have nothing to do with Queen Isabella’s pale complexion. At least she will give us a good (if not physically accurate) performance as the Spanish princess’ mother.

    By the way, I hate when late Medieval – early Renaissance flicks don’t get headpieces right, which is almost always. Don’t want to sound like an old prude, but women are almost always shown wearing her hair loose or wearing ridiculous tiaras instead or appropriate and elegant Gable headresses, French hoods or the henin for the 1400s.

    1. Thanks for catching the character mix-up! Duh now I remember that we discussed who was playing Isabella in the last post 🙈

  2. SO MANY HEAD NECKLACES! Also the inflatable-plane-pillow headdress looks a BS thing you find in the SCA for generic medieval. Oh, & kicky shrugs? As in the shitty MQoS movie? That’s a thing now? Fuuuuuuuck.

    1. Apparently head necklaces have made an appearance on Vikings, as I saw a FB post complaining about chain mail headbands on ‘Vikings’. Also, mayhap someone saw a pudding cap in a painting and thought adults wore them, too.

      1. Have they taken the headdress worn by the lady in La Dame a la Licorne tapestries, do you think? that looks sort of inflatable plane pillow like
        .

  3. Off to a rollicking start missus! Love it, love it love it. I think I saw that one about the affair with the slave…very odd, didn’t realise at the time it was PFG. I seem to recall finding it quite entertaining [UNTIL the sudden rolling around under trees indiscreet passion thing. Wotevva. Don’t recall the costumes at all though

  4. Did their research for the costumes begin and end with watching “The Tudors?” What other crappy faux-historical stuff might they cite as research, ergot poisoning?

  5. Off to a running start! I dislike PFG because, as Alexandre Dumas said: “you can rape History, but you have to give her beautiful children”. Not that I condone rape, but you get the idea. What PFG produces is what we, sadly, get on screen, and it sure isn’t pretty.
    Case in pint (well, point, but pint would help for sure): That first picture. If I told you that’s Marco Polo escorting a Chinese princess to her wedding, I think it would be more believable than what it’s supposed to be. (And I love that gent’s face: “oh, crap, that’s not going to look good on my resumé!”)

  6. The weird padded roll headdress on Catherine strongly reminds me of the hairstyle on a few of the women in the unicorn tapestries. It’s supposedly their hair in the tapestries, but it has that same silhouette and funky little twist at the top.

    1. Padded headrolls were high fashion in the Fifth century Byzantine Empire. See the mosaic of Empress Theodora and ladies in Ravenna Cathedral. I don’t think the fashion lasted to early 16th c. Spain however.

    1. Fun fact, I’m not sure when people started wearing white to their weddings, but it was WAYYYYY before Queen Victoria! Before bleach came along, white was a difficult fabric colour to both produce and keep clean, so wearing it showed you were wealthy af: your family could afford to buy it and you didn’t have to worry about getting it dirty because you didn’t have to work.

      (side note: Tudor Monastery Farm, which is obviously set around the same time as most of PFG’s works, has some great scenes showing how the ammonia from collected and fermented human urine was used to whiten clothing. I assume there wasn’t enough urine to go around for everyone’s use–Ruth Goodman points out that the monks’ white sheets and clothes, which it is part of her task to wash, are about five times whiter than her own, because they get urine access priority over their tenant farmers.)

      Since the wedding was an opportunity for the bride’s family to show off their riches and show the value that they and their daughter would bring to the groom’s household and the alliance with the groom’s family, white was a really obvious choice for rich families for a long time before Queen Victoria. White cloth interwoven with metallic threads of gold or silver was also very popular. I don’t know when it started, but I think given the above information I’m guessing that dressing the bride in white was a not uncommon choice by Tudor nobility.

      By-the-by, this also meant that white as a symbol of purity and virginity was sort of a secondary meaning for the colour for a long time. The main reason was a dick-measuring contest.

      Oh, and another fun fact in case you didn’t know: despite her religiousness, Queen Victoria didn’t choose a white gown to symbolise her purity: she did it to showcase her patriotism. Why? With the industrial revolution leading to machine-made lace for a fraction of the cost, a shitton of lace-makers in England were out of work. So Queen Victoria decided to use a massive piece of English hand-made lace (Honnington lace, I think?) on her wedding gown to show that she, the Queen of England, supported the English economy, and hopefully it would encourage other women to use hand-made English lace on their wedding dresses too. White was chosen as the best colour to show off the lace. (The plan totally worked, btw.)

      I’m not providing specific details because I have pretty bad ADHD and if I go look for them, I will click link after link after link and end up on a three-day obsessive research bender about something completely unimportant to my real life (that type of bender is how I found this very site). But it is very easy to find informative search results for something like ‘queen victoria white wedding myth’ if you want to find out more. It’s pretty interesting actually, and it’s a great lil tale to pull out at parties if you like being that “well, actually” person. is totally guilty of being that “well, actually” person.

      If anyone has any further details or has a correction, please feel free to chime in!

      1. OMG, did you just “nerdsplain” at us? :) I’ll see your fun fact and raise you one: medieval whitening was also done by draping linens over bushes or spread out on grass, so that (as I understand as a non-biologist) clorophyll drawn out of the plants by the sun would aid in the bleaching process. I’ve read of late medieval linen-producing towns surrounded by pastures covered in yards and yards of new white linen. Of course, linen was for underclothing and bed sheets, for the most part, and could be cleaned by boiling, which was obviously not an option for expensive clothing. I’m sure the rich wouldn’t be caught dead wearing it as a fashion layer for weddings.

        1. Actually Nick, urine was used to whiten linens in the MA. And you’ll note that even Tudor Monastery Farm (which is excellent scholarship, BTW) mentions it. And I was watching something by Lacy Worsley just today, that mentioned that fact. Dr Worsley is not only a historian, but is Joint Curator of the Historic Roayl Palaces in Britain. She might just know her stuff.

          1. I don’t believe I contradicted her information, just added to it. Hence my wording, “ALSO done.” :)

          2. Urine was indeed used to whiten linen, BUT I think linen was considered quite a cheap fabric, and the rich would probably not had had outer-garments made of it.
            They would have worn garments made of far more expensive, luxurious fabrics.

            Linen probably was thus generally used for undergarments or bed sheets rather than royal wedding gowns.

      2. I’m completely fascinated about all of this. Everyone always talks about how it was never a white dress before Queen Victoria though I do recall reading somewhere that it was less common because you had to be rich enough to keep it clean. Bless Victoria for giving those lace-makers something to do!

        1. I think it is more that after Victoria, and thanks to things like early photography, printing press, and widening of the world during Victoria’s time, white became the expected default. She did not invent it, but she popularised it. Yes, people wore white before her, but also other colors. Often times, it was simply the best dress you owned. In the Gilded Age America, whatever it was you wore it your first year of marriage at high society events.

    2. . . . and are those supposed to be French bees embroidered? They don’t look like pomegranate . . . whatever they are, I’d lay money they are anachronistic . . .

  7. Love this take down. I am not sorry I don’t get these “premium” channels. Also, head necklaces everywhere!

  8. Love this! And, yeah, PFG is weeeeeirdly obsessed with incest. Weren’t the creepyawful Wildacres books her fault, too?

    1. Yes, those Wildacres books were tragically bad. I’d randomly picked up 2 of them & started reading them in a sort of car-wreck fascination fugue state. SO MUCH INCEST, WHY?!?!?

      1. I remember it having something to do with the heroine being obsessed with Wideacre and the fact that she couldn’t inherit the house because she was female. So the incest thing was to control her brother so that she could really run the house or something like that?

  9. If they want to have them in clothes from a mishmash of historical eras, and men running about without shirts and women sword-fighting as some kind of weird metaphor for sex, why don’t they just make fantasy stuff? No-one cares if someone in Game of Thrones sticks an upside down visor or an Aliexpress tiara on. The real irony is that the makers of GoT wouldn’t !

    1. EXACTLY. Like, if you like the idea but don’t like what happened, take inspiration and run with it! That is 100% fine. It’s even encouraged. How many fun and excellent movies and shows have been inspired by history or literature and yet retold it in a different way, different setting, etc.?

      If you want to impose something on a story, just write your own. Don’t bastardize history (or literature—looking at you, “gritty” Anne with an E that somehow totally missed the whole point of Anne and the Anne books).

  10. I still remember attending a conference where Philippa Gregory was one of the Guests of Honor. She spent her entire speech talking about how historically accurate she is and how she gets no respect compared to Hilary Mantel. It was awful and made her look ridiculous given how many millions she’s made off her books and TV adaptations.

    1. Yeah, I meant to rant about her whole butthurt about not being taken seriously as a historian, but then starz dropped the trailer and I got distracted!

      1. She’s also not above sniping at other historical novelists for not being as well-researched as her. Sometimes when she does that she really put her foot in it, as here:

        “I remember years ago reading [Hugh] Walpole’s novel on Judith Paris and she escapes by opening a window and climbing down a drainpipe – before sanitation had been invented. I was loving the novel up until that point but it completely lost me then and I always hold it in my mind as the sort of thing I don’t want a reader of mine to experience.”

        (From: http://www.philippagregory.com/news/news/229)

        The idiot woman was so keen to diss Walpole that she completely failed to notice that the drainpipe in question is clearly described as one taking rainwater from the roof gutter to a water butt. Such downpipes have not only existed since the Middle Ages – from 1724 it was a legal requirement for houses in London to have them, and many fine Georgian buildings in Britain still have their original pipe-work from roof to ground. Walpole 1: Gregory 0.

    2. Yeah, you can get historical fiction that you can use as a guide to learn more about the source (for me it was Victoria Holt/Jean Plaidy [same person]). Hang the fiction from the facts or twist the facts for a dire narrative need. Reordering birth order, changing known history for kicks and giggles, not so much.

      The Constant Princess was almost a hate crime, it was so bad. Now, if you want me at a book club, because, no, make it a book club dedicated to hate reading, especially PFG, and I’ll show up and debone a bitch.

  11. Oh thank goodness it’s not just me who has noticed a rise in “weird tiaras I wishlisted on aliexpress” turning up in costume dramas of late

  12. The padded headdress thing reminds me of something one of the modern York princesses would wear to a family wedding. And the “Moorish” lady-in-waiting’s head necklace looks like it was “borrowed” from sub-Saharan African-inspired fashion. To put it on the only obviously dark-skinned character plays to the swamp of racist, sexist fetishism that is “exoticism”. Par for the course when it comes to the school of televised “history as soap opera”.

    1. Yeah, I get that they’re going for “foreign/exotic” with that character, but it seems very heavy handed. Also why is she wearing giant honking “chains of office” type chains? Is she mayor? ;)

    2. I was waiting for somone to point that out. As much as I like seeing diversity in my period pieces (and would love to see a great deal more) one thing that always bothers me is the whole “Moors = Black” thing, which simply isn’t true. Moor in the 15-18 centuries meant Arab/Berber/Kurdish et al, and not “African”. In this time period most educated Europeans called Sub Saharan Africans “Ethiopians”, regardless of where they were from, and would not have conflated the two like most modern filmmakers do today. This conflation of two very different people groups is a combination of lazy racism and some well meaning but ultimately misguided mid twentieth century afrocentrism. The fact that this actress is being used as the token exotic makes this all the worse for me.

  13. That farthingale with the missing panels…I feel like it’s going to start twirling and she’s going to fly off like a helicopter

    1. It’s the unholy spawn of a farthingale and a pair of paned pluderhosen. Pludingale? Sounds like a shore bird, or maybe a dessert.

  14. I love the way that the facial expressions of the actresses in the framegrabs look like they’re seeing themselves in those getups for the first time, from bewilderment to disgust to outright “throw your head back and scream”.

  15. I’m disgusted not just on a historical level, but on an aesthetic level. At least in garbage like Dangerous Beauty, it (mostly) looked pretty. Here, nearly everything looks tacky, like they rented half their stuff from a local production of Once Upon A Mattress, and the other half from The Tudors.

  16. I remember watching “A Respectable Trade” in the 90’s?.
    It had Warren Clarke, Emma Fielding and Richard Briers, playing against type, as a slave trader………….I seem to remember “enjoying” it…………as a woman of colour, it was hard to watch at times, e.g., one of the female slaves/servants was made to wear a scold’s bridle. It all ended unhappily.

  17. BLESS THIS POST.

    What PFG did with both Anne Boleyn and Katharine of Aragon chaps my ass. It really does. Philippa does not write ‘true to historical fiction,’ she writes ‘every slander used against them is true’ historical fiction. There IS a difference. (BTW, her book about Catherine Parr, the pious and religious intellectual wife of Henry VIII opens with Catherine Parr having sex with Thomas Seymour. Ha, ha. No. And it goes on to include some really cringe-worthy S&M type stuff with old, bloated, gouty H8. No thanks. Gag. That’s the first time I ever wanted to bleach my eyeballs after reading a book. OMG just no. Stay away.)

    Can I just comment on that trailer? Like who the hell is the guy with the beard? Is that supposed to be Henry VII? Who NEVER GREW A BEARD? WHO LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE GAUNT HENRY VIII? WHY. WHY. WHY. For God’s sake. I’d say get Stephen Dillane to play H7 because he’s perfect for it in my head, but on the other hand, I want him nowhere near this disaster.

    Arthur looks sullen and pissy.

    I’m okay with their Elizabeth of York. Still, hubby – BEARD. NO.

    Um. Philippa… and Starz… Henry 8 was 10/11 at the time he met KoA. Not 18 as this “hawt” teenage boy suggests. But I appreciate that at least both of them are redheads this time.

    Hahaha, windmill. I knew you’d love that pic.

    Margaret Beaufort is always fabulous, regardless of who is playing her as a “mega-bitch” (which imo she wasn’t; she was crazy smart, devout, and kind to poor people, though ;).

    I’m torn. The White Princess was such an awful shit-storm of HORROR that seriously nothing would shock me here; there’s no way to top that level of dreadful. So part of me has a tiny bit of hope that I won’t hate, loathe, and detest this as much as I think I might.

    Either way, I’ll hate watch the entire thing and bitch about it. ;)

      1. Yup. And then she hurried back to tend her dying husband. Just eww.

        YAY! Someone will be hate watching it with me! I figure I need actual fodder for my rage and not just broad generalizations. Also, ALWAYS KNOW WHAT YOUR ENEMY IS DOING.

        Ahem.

    1. I totally agree. Gregory also did a total hatchet job on Margaret Beaufort in The White Queen, which is frankly slanderous. She makes her out to have been a raving, Machiavellian religious fanatic, when she was in fact a fiercely intelligent woman who translated books and even founded a college.

      Oh, and she also made out Margaret to have been a crazed psychotic mass murderer who was responsible for the deaths of (among others) her teenage half-brother, who actually lived to a rope old age and died in his bed, the demise of the practically the entire house of York, and the murder of Princes in the Tower. No evidence for any of it of course, but who wants to let the facts get in the way of the story?

      1. applauds you

        I actually spend far too much time online trying to argue fools out of believing all the stupid PFG-related accusations against Margaret Beaufort, because if it was on a show, it must be true. :P The poor woman must be rolling over in her grave. If ghosts exist, I hope she haunts that writer’s ass.

        Did you see the horror-fest that was The White Princess? At one point, Henry VII actually drags his mother across the floor BY HER ANKLES and throws her out into the hall — a “much deserved public humiliation” when he finds out she murdered the Princes in the Tower. That show had already made my eyes bleed by that point, but after that I wanted to beat my head on the floor and scream. :P

  18. Thanks for your text. I did not know Susan Bordo’s book about Anne Boleyn, so I bought it immediately. :D But may I point one thing? Harry was not cast well. If this Harry in the trailer is Prince Harry when he meets Catherine fot the first time, he was a boy of 9. So, they should have cast a boy, not a young man. I’m tired of that laziness about changing an actor, or actress, if necessary due to their age or ageing. If it’s necessary, it must be done.

    1. Starz is actually making it more… um… appropriate by aging him up. I have read this novel and I kid you not, 10 year old Henry is sexing Catherine up with his eyes all through it, when he is just a child. And she describes him as more mature than his years. So the ick factor goes down when you, you know, cast a teenager instead of someone who resembles Ron Weasley in the first Harry Potter movie. :P

      1. OMG that is repulsive. Seriously, that is literally the excuses pedophiles make. Add this in with the reports of an incest obsession in some of her other books and I am genuinely creeped out.

  19. Maybe you can do a whole post about the changing fashions of English Renaissance hoods? I admit, while I know the broad strokes – which hoods belong in which dates – I have no idea how they’re supposed to be worn. Please enlighten us as to how a French hood should be seated if not standing upright?

  20. On the scale of things it’s minor, but Henry VII’s surcoat has pomegranates on it. But it’s Catherine of Aragon’s symbol. (In fact you can see the same fabric in a different colourway on Catherine in the BBC’s Wolf Hall.) Unless he’s supposed to be doing a sort of “Hello people from Aragon, look I am wearing your symbol in solidarity. Marriage, yay!” thing, which I sincerely doubt, it /really/ goddamn bugs me. How did no one notice??

    Like I said, it’s minor, but Catherine holds a special place in my heart, she’s buried in my hometown cathedral, which is why I will be avoiding this like the plague…

    1. Your hometown cathedral is gorgy. I don’t blame you for avoiding PFG and this travesty Luke the plague.

    1. I do. It made the mistake of being both historically inaccurate and boring. Mary was portrayed as a whiny, spoiled baby who was obsessed with one thing. The only thing she could think about apparently because she thought it exactly the same way for four pages in every freaking chapter.

  21. What pisses me off the most, is that there are authors out there, even in historical fiction land, that have written about these same people and still made it feel so damn real and well researched, but all we get are these shit-shows. Any author that talks about themselves as much as PFG does, makes me feel ill. The costume people clearly don’t care what is really correct for the time period, as long as it helps sell the over-dramatic schlock.
    Argggggghhhhh!!!!!

      1. Great idea.

        What about a miniseries based on The Secret Diary of Anne Boleyn or Madamoiselle Boleyn? Both are by Robin Maxwell

  22. Those costumes, ugh… they just look so cheest and fake, and above all, CHEAP. I honestly don’t understand how anyone could think they look good…

  23. I’m going to binge on season 4 of Outlander. Lord John is yummy. The other show I’ll be watching instead is season 2 of Mrs Maisel.

    I avoid PFG bc she’s a lousy writer who should be shunned. Her historical fiction isn’t researched. And I cannot comprehend why she writes this trash. She denigrates all her characters especially both the pious AB (Protestant) and KoA (Catholic).

    Both women were trapped by HVIII and I don’t believe any author of fiction has addressed it.

  24. A Respectable Trade wasn’t terrible (from my vague memories of it), but that was written long before she disappeared into a fog of Tudor revisionism, never to be seen again.

  25. It was an absolute laugh-riot to see you shred this.
    I know Caterina d’Aragona was one of the few royal brides to wear white*, but it just looked like something out of the ’80’s with those huge puffed sleeves. Was there not at least a description of what she wore?
    I literally thought I was hallucinating when I saw the gaps in her skirt- like, ‘Are you f*cking kidding me?!’
    Lol- I knew the head necklace would get you.

    *A royal bride was more likely to wear silver, til Victoria (her cousin the ill-fated Princess Charlotte’s wedding dress is in a museum, I believe)…. and you’d think that costume designers would leap at such an opportunity, but no- brides wear white, no matter the century or circumstances… “Else how are you going to know you’re witnessing a ‘mawwidge’, and who’s the bwide??” Slap me sideways, the audience aren’t idiots… well, PFG’s fans…

    All I can say is, thank God they haven’t adapted the Wideacre series (shudder).

    1. Yes, totally yes! That is what I have heard. That literally nobody (or very few) wore white wedding dresses before Queen Vicky. In fact, I seem to recall on Tudor Monastery Farm (a popular documentary show from the UK), or some such that White was generally worn for undergarments and baptismal robes for babies and the like

  26. Very entertaining, thanks. BTW, I looked up Laura Carmichael’s character and see she’s called Maggie Pole as if she’s some jumped up serving maid, not the niece of two kings and cousin of another one. That is just as infuriating as all the costume solecisms.

    Have you ever read the one and two star Amazon reviews for Gregory’s books? highly recommended

  27. Kendra – I have in my hands a shrink wrapped 2 VHS pack copy of Respectable Trade. Not only is it a Mobil Masterpiece Theater presentation, it is also possesses a BBC logo. I will be happy to bless you with the still unopened copy at Costume College 2019, if you so wish. (no money was actually expended by me, my family, or friends in acquiring said movie)

        1. No clunkers in your respective viewing areas? Bummer! I will still bring it – it may wind up in the Bargain Basement

  28. In My Opinion, inexpert but the result of literally decades of reading Tudor history, Catherine of A would never have told a deliberate lie but false memory is not impossible. Whatever happened between her and Arthur happened eighteen years before to a bewildered virgin who was probably genuinely confused about what exactly constituted consummation. Hence the mixed messages at the time. Catherine would have been more than human if she hadn’t edited her memories subconsciously to match what she wanted to believe.

    In fact the question of consummation was irrelevant. A consummated marriage could be dispensed as well as an unconsummated one. The real issue was the wording of the dispensation and Henry’s insistence that the Pope could not dispense an impediment based on Holy Writ. Which BTW were the worst possible grounds he could have chosen.

    And what the heck is it with costume designers? Why can’t they Look At The Damme Artwork??

    1. Hmmmm, I think your first penetrative sexual experience would be pretty memorable. I can still remember mine. Especially since it would have been a Big Deal to CoA on a “official consummation” level, whether or not she’d been told much about sex beforehand.

      1. At the time everybody acted like consummation had occurred, including Catherine. The question only arose after Arthur’s death. As I recall Catherine’s confessor and her Duenna, both of whom should have known, told different stories. Catherine herself had nothing to say until eighteen years later.

  29. Is it just me, or does Anne’s dress in The Other Boleyn Girl look really like a synthetic fiber?

  30. It appears who have articulated why I haven’t actually read any of her other books that I own. I have them. They stare at me and I. Just. Can’t. I had no idea why until now, so thank you for that! I also may have hurt myself giggling through this whole thing.

    As to the fringe collar accessory that Henry is wearing, perhaps it’s a “Spanish” love token?

  31. So I haven’t seen any sign of a White Princess season two. Dare we hope its been cancelled?

  32. Thanks to Frockflicks and historical fiction sites, I now know better than to waste my time reading PFG. Your mention of the incest theme made me curious, however, so I looked up Wideacre and found that the first book was published in 1987. As a mystery reader, I remember that at around that time, there was a rash of detective novels in which incest was the plot device that eventually led to homicide many years later. (And I got pretty disgusted at the repetition of this plot–in a mystery novel it often didn’t surface until the end of the story.) Anyone think there might be a connection?

    It also looks as if PFG writes a lot of her novels in the present tense. If I hadn’t already been warned off by the revelation of her many inaccuracies, d’you know, the present tense would be enough to put me off.

  33. The man in the top image made me think of Columbus but I had no clue who the women could be. Catherine of Aragon would NOT have been my first guess. Or my fiftieth. BTW ‘Moors’ were North Africans not sub-Saharan Africans. The latter were present in Europe mostly as ornamental slaves though many achieved freedom and higher status. Given the precarious status of ‘Moors’ in newly reunited Spain C of A is MOST unlikely to have included one in her entourage. I’ve certainly never seen any record of such a attendant.

  34. I was totally done with Philippa Gregory after l stumbled ovee a scene in one of her books, where Amy Robsart, already married to Dudley, went to milk the cows. She herself. Milk the cows. Fuck me, WHAT?!
    It didn’t help at all that Elisabeth Tudor was depicted in this book as hysterical drama queen with a pea brain, capable of thinking about Dudley’s hotness only.

    1. What bugged me was the depiction of Elizabeth and Cecil as little country cousins as opposed to courtier Robin Dudley.

  35. First of all, I love your posts. Second of all, what ON EARTH is Margaret Beaufort even doing in The White Princess? Even a quick search can tell you Margaret died very shortly after her grandson Henry VII’s coronation in 1509.

    Also, I totally understand what you mean about incest. Some disturbed people actually seemed to think that the whole incest between Richard III and and Elizabeth of York in The White Queen was sweet and romantic. There’s even a line of Ricardian fan fiction which has him impregnating some of his other besotted nieces.

    Very disturbing indeed.

  36. Wow. I thought I was the only one who knew Philippa Gregory’s middle name. And down with the “WTF ‘D’yous “!

    I read TOBG when it came out and after my blood pressure stabilized swore never again. Then I got sick, house-bound, and bored and went through a stage of hate reading her crap.

    All you say and more. And I will probably hate watch the show, since I just pushed through the first.

    At lease Katherine looks about right. Eddie Red–I mean Henry looks too old. Whatevs. Not Historical anything. Maybe alt-history in the world of bad romance dreck.

  37. A Respectable Trade (1998) is set in the 18th century and about the slave trade. Never read/seen it, sorry.

    Perhaps you should do either or both. The 1998 TV production had been nominated for several BAFTAs.

  38. I’ve just found this site. Such a relief to find people who hate PG as much as I do. Norah Lofts was, and is, the best historical novelist.

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